Why One Wrong Hire Can Sink Your Culture: Brian Scudamore on People

Feb 5, 2014

6 min read

Updated: Oct 29

A business is only as strong as its weakest link, and the links are people. That is how Brian Scudamore, founder and CEO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK, explains his napkin, which reads: it's all about people. The phrase is on the wall at his head office with his name beneath it. He did not arrive there by theory. Five years in, he realized he had the wrong people, and he fired his entire company of 11 and went back to driving the one remaining truck himself. Years later, after the business passed $100 million, a highly qualified senior leader who did not share his vision helped bring it close to bankruptcy. His conclusion is that it takes only one person to change a culture. This is for owners who suspect someone on the team does not fit and are still waiting to act.

Inspired by Paper Napkin Wisdom Episode 50 with Brian Scudamore.

What to do when you realize you have the wrong people

In 1994, five years into the business, Brian had nine employees he considered bad and two who were okay. He made the call that one bad apple spoils the bunch and that he needed a clean slate.

He brought all 11 people into his office. Taking full responsibility, he told them he had not hired the right people, had not invested in training them, and had not spent enough time getting to know them. Then he let them all go. The company went from five trucks to one, and he was the one driving it.

He calls it his biggest mistake and one of the best things that ever happened to the business. Months later he was grateful he had seen it. And he points out it was far easier with 11 people than it would be with the 2,000 or so people across the system now.

How did he know? He was not having fun. He did not enjoy walking into the office or meeting his team in the morning. The more time he spent with those people, the further he pulled away from his own business.

How to hire for fit, not just skill

When people ask Brian for his list of interview questions, he tells them it is about fit. His test is simple. Is this someone you would have over for a barbecue? Do you enjoy their conversation and share some good laughs? Do you want to work with them?

You still need a way to check skills. But at 1-800-GOT-JUNK they hire for attitude and train on skill. You spend so many hours at work that you might as well enjoy the day together, and he believes teams that enjoy each other tend to win.

He puts friends in quotation marks on purpose. He is not hanging out with his team all the time. There are moments where the line has to be drawn and the relationship is professional. His point is that business is serious, but not meant to be taken too seriously. When you like the people you work with, it is easier to say, what just happened there, let's figure it out, instead of turning a mistake into a crisis.

They are picky about it. He mentions searching for a VP of marketing for almost a year.

Why a talented leader who doesn't share your vision is dangerous

By about 2006 the business had hit $100 million in system-wide revenue. It felt invincible. Then the recession came, and people were moving and hauling away junk less.

Brian brought in a new president with a strong track record leading U.S. operations at a major brand. Smart, talented, a good person. He thought he had found the person to take the business to the next level. But the company had a silly, fun, quirky culture, and she brought a more buttoned-up one. They did not see eye to eye on the kind of people they wanted, the culture, or the vision for growth.

In his words, the two of them together nearly bankrupted the business through the end of the recession. After she left, he had to let go of most of his leadership team and promote lower level managers, most of whom are still with him. The business recovered to $128 million, and he expected $147 million for the year.

He is careful about the lesson. It was not her skills. She had the skills to build and lead businesses. It was that their values and vision did not line up. That, he says, is what culture is really about.

Why the founder should own vision and culture

Brian credits Jack Daly with naming his role. Brian's job is two things. He is the vision guy and the culture guy. He sets the direction, cheers the team on, and makes sure the core culture never gets away from him.

Brian pairs that with a president who has been with him for several years and who gets the vision. They call it a two in the box team. Brian is CEO and does the culture and vision work. The president is the execution person and does what Brian says he could never do. They believe in each other.

Culture does not maintain itself. Sometimes you have the wrong people. Sometimes you have the right people at the wrong time, and you help them move on. He says they have invited some back later, and it has worked out well.

He is also honest that they still move too slowly. They try to live by slow to hire, quick to fire, and he admits they keep people around a little too long. He repeats a line about it. The longest day in a manager's life runs from the day they know they need to let someone go to the day they do. Keeping people too long does not do anyone favors.

How to run a daily huddle that checks your culture

Brian's daily culture discipline is the Huddle, a seven-minute stand-up meeting. A bell rings a couple of minutes before it starts, and everyone gathers at the same time every day. The format:

Good news first. No matter how bad a day seems, there is good news somewhere.
Key critical numbers.
One person talks about their department for 90 seconds. Go over and the team hurries you along.
Missing systems and opportunities. What can we get better at?
A cheer to close, for a birthday or any win worth cheering.

It gives different people a chance to stand up and lead in front of the company. It is also a checkpoint. If Huddle is flat one day, something might be going on. Flat for a week, and something needs looking into. He compares it to a family sitting down to dinner together.

It took about a month to get people to buy in when they launched it. Their Toronto office runs Huddle at the same time, and they were adding a video link so both offices could be one team.

How to apply this in your business this week

Run the barbecue test on your team. Who would you happily spend an evening with? Who do you avoid? Notice the gap.
Name the person you already know needs to move on. Set a date for the conversation. Brian's own admission is that his company still waits too long.
In your next hire, write down the values and vision they must share before you look at skills. Ask about them directly.
Start a short daily stand-up. Good news, key numbers, one update, one improvement, a cheer. Keep it to seven minutes and watch how the energy changes day to day.
Tell your origin story to the team, mistakes included. Brian's 1994 story is told across his company by people other than him.

I wonder how many owners are carrying a person they already know does not fit. That is usually the first place to look.